Legion (May 13, 2011 1:48:15 AM)
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James Laurence (May 13, 2011 1:48:57 AM)
(This user has entered Legions Office) (IP = 67.249.52.12)

Legion (May 13, 2011 1:49:30 AM)
Just getting a few things ...

Dusk (May 13, 2011 1:50:20 AM)
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James Laurence (May 13, 2011 1:51:47 AM)
dude, I know exactly what happend yesterday, i know it went to far with luci, and ive not spoken a word to her since, and am not going to heh

Legion (May 13, 2011 1:52:03 AM)
OKay, I will look for the screens in a moment at need'

Legion (May 13, 2011 1:53:07 AM)
OKay James, Lets start with the business at hand , let me lay it out for you and then I will give you a chance to answer for your self

Legion (May 13, 2011 1:53:59 AM)
For the sake of avoiding confusion, I will from now on refer to you as Brent,.

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 1:54:05 AM)
alrighty, go for it, already know i let it go to far with luci, and steev and i settled up between us earlier, but lets go for it

Legion (May 13, 2011 1:57:35 AM)
Since your time on SI, there has been a number of accusations of harrassement made against you. Omen informed the team that a female player felt so badgered by you ooc, that she would not make a character in the venue, then, later, another unofficial complaint came in, with screens that heavily suggested that you were ooc harrasing the player to play with you, that you were being treated unfailry and despite requests to stop talking to them, continues to post and harry them in regards to your feelings. ON my desk at the moment, I have two more complaints of ooc harrasement against female players

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 1:59:40 AM)
the complaint on alice is bogus, i never harassed her for anything, i only asked her what was going on, and i got into a fight with luci, which i admit to letting it go too far.... omen's alleged complaint is bogus as well, and i dont know about this unofficial complaint

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:00:16 AM)
Furthermore, in the screens, you clearly use ooc pressure to have these players play with you and in once instance, use a barely veiled threat of ic recriminations

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:00:29 AM)
No James, it is not bogus, it is harrassemnt

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:00:58 AM)
You posted to her with the sole intention of guilting her into talking to you and playing with you

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:01:19 AM)
This is ooc harrasssement

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:01:24 AM)
I have spent some time reading through the screen shots and listening to the player complaints and since these are not isolated incidents, I believe that you just don't recognise just what constitutes harrassement.

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:01:29 AM)
i never harassed alice, i was trying to find out what was going on to see if she was still upset with me, that is not harassment

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:01:58 AM)
and she was upset with me for choosing sophie over her pc afew months ago

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:02:54 AM)
posting to people who ask you not to is harrassemnt, attempting to use ooc pressure to have people play with you is harrassment, accusing someone of playing with ST's to gain in game benefits is not only harrassment, it is falsly accusing someone of cheating and bordeline metagaming

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:03:07 AM)
she never asked me not too

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:03:37 AM)
You posted to her out of the blue and immedialty attempted to make her feel as if she should be playing with you

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:04:24 AM)
i did not want her to play with me legion, i wanted to know if she was still upset with me, and why she wasnt talking to me, to see if she was still upset about something several months ago, sheesh

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:04:57 AM)
that is not harassment to try and find out if someone is still upset with me ooc, about something that happend ic

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:06:35 AM)
as for the stuff with luci, i admitted to it, and talked to steev about it earlier, and i snapped on that one yes, for numerous reasons, none of which are good, yes, i admit to doing things wrong when i do them, but im not going to admit to being wrong when i didnt do something wrong

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:06:36 AM)
This is what you see, it is how you feel about the situation. However the entirelty of the Demoin team and the admin do not agree with you. It is very VERY obvious that you just dont recognise your own crime. You think it is okay to push your agenda when you are upset, you believe there is nothing wring with continually posting your pewrsonla feelings to female players you play with

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:06:52 AM)
This is not okay James, most players DO NOT do this

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:07:08 AM)
Just stop, think about that for a moment

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:07:56 AM)
I have been thinking about it, and I recognise what I did wrong with luci, and ive admitted it repeatedly

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:10:10 AM)
I have screen shots of your innapropriate behavior from more than one occaton Brent. I am on four complaints now, all from female players, three official and one none official and I believe another one, who is holding off for the moment due to the game and her position in it

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:10:16 AM)
how much do you want me to admit to here, I have also been working on my issues with stress and anger irl, infact just this past week or two ive been taking new meds for it

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:11:29 AM)
and maybe two of them are legitimate complaints, i deny the validity of gabby's, and always will, i didnt do anything wrong

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:11:29 AM)
You don't have to admit anything James, but the mere fact that you have to ask that question tells me that you have an issue that is not going to be solved by a conversation with me. These complaints keep coming in, they are all the same

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:12:02 AM)
Femal players you form an attachment to feel harrased, pressured and sometimes driven to tears by you ooc ranting

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:13:45 AM)
You have become a liability and a threat to the venue frankly, while your defence seems to be 'I'm not apologising, there is no issue here"

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:14:01 AM)
no thats not my defense

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:14:20 AM)
i said i was wrong for what happend to luci, and id gladly apologize to her

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:14:23 AM)
You are an excellent Role player, descriptive and intelligent, but you can also be qa bully, and very possesive

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:14:27 AM)
but you guys told me not to talk to her

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:14:42 AM)
She does not want to talk to you again.... ever

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:16:15 AM)
thats fine, im just saying, id apologize to her, im sorry about it, i knew it went too far before she went to complain, i have been admitting what i did there.... and as for your other three, id love to see some of this other proof against me before i admit any wrong doing

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:17:06 AM)
did omen have actual proof, and who is this other... and i know what i said to alice, i still deny any wrong doing to her, but i will not speak to her either

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:17:56 AM)
I'm not inclined to pass the screens to you, as they are self evident. - filling screens with yellow after being asked to stop badgering players, making accusations of ooc motivations, using threats of IC recriminations in regards to not playing with you enough

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:18:35 AM)
Omen let the issue go when the player in question point blank refused to make a char in the venue you played in... I'm sorry but there it is

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:19:21 AM)
Please understand, This is not at all personal and I do not enjoy being in this position, but I am and I must deal with this situation as I see as best for the venue

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:20:22 AM)
I tend to disbelieve anything that i cant see

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:20:38 AM)
and i tend to disbelieve almost everything from omen

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:21:02 AM)
Your feelings toward most of the team is well established Brent

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:21:13 AM)
The facts are this

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:21:23 AM)
actually, my feelings toward steev changed quite abit when he and i talked earlier today

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:22:08 AM)
my feelings towards the team are mostly cause people keep telling me that they have been hearing things from them against me... which doesnt exactly make me feel safe or give me the warm fuzzies

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:23:11 AM)
Enough players in the venue feel that you badger them, use ooc pressure to get scenes with them and feel that you question the validity of their rp when they don't aquiesse to your arguments. In the past week, two players have blocked you rather than continue listening to you and those posts have been sent to me

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:24:05 AM)
one of them is bogus, and the other i understand

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:24:26 AM)
Brent, I think you are going to have to accept that either, you continue to choose rp partners that are in some way cheat, or, you may in fact be harrassing players

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:25:23 AM)
IT is not bogus that in the past you have relentlessly harraged players in arguments, rants over how you fele you have been treated and pressureing people to play]

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:25:39 AM)
this is the issue, you do not recognise that your actions are in fact harrassement

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:25:41 AM)
im not saying all of it is bogus, im talking about alice, its crap

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:25:52 AM)
i didnt harass alice is what im saying

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:26:01 AM)
*nods*

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:26:12 AM)
how often do i have to say it, i know what i did with luci, acknowledged, done

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:26:29 AM)
would apologize if i could but i cant

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:27:17 AM)
with alice, she got mad at me and stopped talking to me ooc over something that happend ic, and so i left her alone for afew months and decided to ask her last night if she was still mad, and why

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:27:35 AM)
I have the transcript

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:28:11 AM)
I would quote it to you but that seems redundant.. you wont see that your interaction with her was unwarrented

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:29:00 AM)
how was it unwarrented, she told me once she didnt see the need, so i asked her why she was still mad, after she had told me we could still be friends, and after that didnt say anything else

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:29:48 AM)
Alice is not the main issue here

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:30:02 AM)
In fact, Alice is a minor bump in the road

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:31:20 AM)
My concerns, and the concernms of the chat and the venue are the other complaintants and it is the unanimous decision of the team and the admin involved that their complaints are valid

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:31:22 AM)
and she and omen's thing are the only two i say are not an issue, cause i dont believe omen for one, and both you and dusk before you became STs werent exactly his biggest fans especially with his over juiced pc.... I admit to luci, and the possibility of the one other though

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:32:10 AM)
and to ask, is said admin dastai?

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:32:29 AM)
You have demonstrated an almost serial pattern of behavior in regards to beiong possesive, intimidating and do regognise the difference between harrassemnt, and persistance

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:32:52 AM)
If you must know, Dastai and Auggy were both approached

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:33:24 AM)
well considering dastai is one of luci's closest friends, i would be foolish not to question it

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:34:29 AM)
but anyway, you came in with your mind made up on whats going on, so, lets not drag it out any longer

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:35:10 AM)
oh Brent, you only just got through telling me that you knew you went over the line with Luci', and now you say that on the basis of Dastai's freindship with Luci, you question my investigating it?

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:35:47 AM)
Actually I didn't., but your refusal to recognise the core issue has lead me to a descision

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:35:49 AM)
oh im not saying i did nothing wrong with luci

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:36:17 AM)
i have been admitting to the core issue damnit, but you keep focusing on my refusal to admit to things with alice

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:36:42 AM)
I know what i did wrong, and told you i was sorry for it with luci

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:37:25 AM)
okay, before I make my final decision, just who do you recognise your misdealings with?

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:38:34 AM)
I have had at least two unofficial complaints that I am not even including as evidence as they could not or chose not to provide screens

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:39:01 AM)
that leaves two official complaints, not including Alice, which im just letting go

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:39:29 AM)
i mean what do you want from me besides acknowledgement of what i did wrong with that situation, and being remorseful about it, i have been admitting to what i did wrong with her since i fpm'ed you earlier legion.... i felt bad about letting things go as far as they did with luci last night, i got mad at her after afew days of play, and accuesed her of sucking up to steev and the things i said about him cause other players have been telling me, he gets pissed when they play with me, (he and i however cleared that up earlier and i am sorry for things said involving him)

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:40:19 AM)
Yes, we've dealt with that, but the question still stands

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:41:23 AM)
the other one, i cant exactly admit to cause i dont remember it happening, but if i did it, i didnt realize it when it happend, and im sorry for that

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:42:31 AM)
The team has discussed this issue in depth and while the call was for you to be venue banned, after talking to you, I feel that this is an issue that anyone can address if it is made crystal clear that this behaviour is both unacceptable and uncondusive to a 'fun' activity.

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:45:02 AM)
i understand, and i have in the last few months been letting my temper get the better of me, there are irl components too it that i wont bring in cause it will just seem like im trying to dismiss it, but im not, and im trying to work on them.... i dont mean to let it go as far as it does when it happens, and i do, feel regret for what happend last night

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:49:17 AM)
I appreciate that you are regretful that it has reached this stage, however I have to adress not just your feelings in this, but the feelings of the tyeam and of the players who have complained that they have been made to feel intimidated. I'm going to desanction James permenantly, but i'm going to allow that you are able to remake a new character in two weeks, of you feel inclined to do so. As I said before, you are an excellent Role player and I am loathe to lose you from the venue, but I have to answer these charges and I feel they are justified. I beleive that you may have some anger management issues, or prehaps just dont recognise the tone that you post in, or that bombarding players in yellow can be intimidating.. Whatever the case, If you choose to return, It would be under the conditions that you have no IC contact with the players of Alice or Lucinde at their request.

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:51:04 AM)
very well, both requests are easily met

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:52:08 AM)
though, hold up, permanently desanction james, and make a character in two weeks, why not just desanction him for the two weeks, thats harsh as well, thats taking away alot of work

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:54:05 AM)
*nods* I'm sorry it comes to this, but I think that this is an issue that can be dealt with without banning you from the venue completely. As of now, James is at a desantioned, with no recourse to be resanctioned. Yes James, it is harsh. IC/OOC harrassment is something we take very very seriously, and as there have been repeated cases of it, my only other option is to ban you from the venue completely. This is my olive branch, such as it is.

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 2:56:18 AM)
its also the first time any ST has ever spoken to me about it, arent we skipping some stages in the punishment ladder as well

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:57:42 AM)
Feel free to take any further complaint to the admin, but taking your char is the first warning in a case of this severity, a venue ban will follow, then a chat ban

Legion (May 13, 2011 2:58:56 AM)
Brent, Is there anything else you would like to say before I return to the ooc room?

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:00:26 AM)
what good is saying anything going to be at this point, i dont agree with the severity of the punishment as the first warning, but i know i wont get anywhere with the admins, and i dont know if i will rejoin the venue after losing so many months of work

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:02:10 AM)
thats basically a 132 xp docking, and many many long months of hard work gone on a first warning

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:04:28 AM)
*nods* If James stays, other chars who have donr nothing wrong, will go, costing the chat good chars, good players and lots of work on their end as welI... but that aside, rather than a venue ban, this is my call. I hope you feel differently in two weeks Brent. Though keep in mind, SI will not tolerate any further cases of harrassment of other players. I'm sorry it came to this.

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:04:32 AM)
Take it easy

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:04:42 AM)
i understand the temporary loss of time, i could even understand an xp docking atop it, as it was pretty bad what happend, but i cant see myself coming back

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:05:13 AM)
*nods* That is an understandable reaction

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:05:30 AM)
but under the circumstances, the call stands

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:05:50 AM)
and one im sure nobody will be sad about, since they just got rid of one of the more powerful characters in the venue

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:06:32 AM)
That kind of talk is beneath you Brent, I know you're angry, but I'd walk it off about now

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:07:21 AM)
Legion im not the only one who thinks that way after ive mentioned the punishment to others

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:07:33 AM)
and they arent angry

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:09:41 AM)
Brent, did you also tell tell them that the reason for thsi call was your serial intimidation of female players on the chat? Did you inform them that before this came to be, that a barrage of complaints had come in saying that you were a bully and pest? That you used OOC pertering and threats of IC retaliation to get to this level of punishment?

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:10:29 AM)
Would you prehaps like me to question some of these players, infoming them of the facts and getting my own feedback?

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:10:36 AM)
yea i told them the whole list of accusations against me

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:10:47 AM)
well send them in

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:13:13 AM)
Legion, I know I did wrong, and I told them I did wrong, I told them everything you just said to me, but I also realize what im up against, so whats the point

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:14:05 AM)
*nods*

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:14:36 AM)
Again, I'm sorry you feel the way you do, however I don'r think you accept the severity of your misconduct

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:14:57 AM)
I'm going to head off now, take it easy

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:15:06 AM)
Oh I understand how bad what happend was. I also understand alot more of the politics

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:16:27 AM)
no prior warnings on any of my other crimes, and the one that brings me in is the friend of an admin and my choices are venue ban, or a punishment that is as good as one

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:17:08 AM)
OKay, goodnight James... accusations of favouritism do you know credit

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:17:52 AM)
I am freind to noone in this issue, I am the HST. I amde the call, and a two week, four week, six week ban is not good enough for badgering women

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:17:54 AM)
okay

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:17:56 AM)
legion seriously, this isnt a first warning, this is nail that mans balls to a plaque kind of punishment

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:18:32 AM)
no, that would be callling for your complete chat ban, and frankly, that was also on the cards at one point

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:19:48 AM)
YOu dont see how bad it is, or you would not have gone and told other people... jeez brent

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:19:51 AM)
see you

Legion (May 13, 2011 3:19:56 AM)
(This user has moved to OOC Room) (IP = 124.185.161.229)

James Laurence (May 13, 2011 3:20:03 AM)
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Dusk (May 13, 2011 3:20:06 AM)
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