CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 1:53:46 PM)
(This user has entered Chantry Talk) (IP = 68.205.136.19)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 1:55:40 PM)
(This user has entered Chantry Talk) (IP = 198.53.107.243)

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 1:55:56 PM)
:)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 1:56:05 PM)
:)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 1:58:45 PM)
Why are we in this separate room? Is it to discuss secrets?

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 1:59:28 PM)
I'm checkin things. Sorry, i'm slow. See Headache.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:01:01 PM)
Here's the thing about the chantry, it's set up that you buy membership by contributing. And for every 2 points in Chantry (collectively) the Chantry gains a point of backgrounds. 215 on Guide to the Traditions. -- Now as for what she can contribute. Um.. Tryin to figure that out. She can help with the wards. Jack will appreciate that, but aside from that... um..

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:04:52 PM)
So the Chantry is very safe?

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:05:18 PM)
I actually did part of the writeup last night, did you see it?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:05:47 PM)
I wasn't around last night, sorry. I'll look.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:06:02 PM)
Well helping with the wards is out, as she'd need conveyance or summoning, binding, and warding. Hm. um.. look someone's buggin me RL, brb

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:06:03 PM)
http://www.sinful-illusions.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Grey_Lady

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:06:29 PM)
So those are the kind of wards, eh?

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:07:14 PM)
those are the linear powers that can do warding.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:07:14 PM)
Oh, this write up. I've seen this before, but it doesn't have any useful information in it beyond setting.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:07:39 PM)
The only warding that Conveyence can do is teleportation warding.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:08:54 PM)
But to contribute toward a Mage's casting, she just needs related paths.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:08:55 PM)
there's a ritual that can do teleportation wards.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:09:39 PM)
Right, that's what I said. That's the only thing sorcerer's can ward in that book with Conveyence.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:09:47 PM)
And it's really weak.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:11:31 PM)
Says who?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:11:58 PM)
Says the number of successes needed and the difficulty to cast it.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:12:43 PM)
Sorcerers can't compete with Mages for magical power or the time needed to cast that stuff. A mage could cast in a few rounds what it would take a sorcerer hours to do with a ritual.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:13:04 PM)
But there are things that sorcerers can do that Mages find difficult.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:13:26 PM)
*still doing RL nonsense* Okay.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:14:22 PM)
Anyway, I don't think that contributing toward wards will really matter, since the NPCs seem to have that covered. The need has been NPCed away. Is there any other way to contribute that isn't wards?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:16:01 PM)
It seems strange that the only need a chantry has is wards.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:19:19 PM)
And the type of wards is unknown as well, so there's no way to know if she can make a custom ward to help out that the others can't.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:19:29 PM)
THere's plenty more, but i'm running around the room here.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:19:36 PM)
Sorry, can't concentrate.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:19:53 PM)
It's okay.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:25:42 PM)
Okay, back. They're doing their own thing now. x_x I swear I'm an adult babysitter.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:25:55 PM)
^_^

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:25:56 PM)
OKay, where were we?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:26:30 PM)
Talking about what PCs can contribute to beyond wards.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:28:39 PM)
That might be a good section on the wiki.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:29:08 PM)
Well there's only 2 NPCs I have stationed there now, and they're mentors, not "help" So.. yeah. I'm still working on the writeup of the place,

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:30:08 PM)
let me remember who did what.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:30:10 PM)
But they're the ones handling all the wards, and all the bills, and all the paperwork, and... it seems like everything.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:30:17 PM)
No, they're not.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:30:25 PM)
Oh! I thought they were.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:30:31 PM)
Nope.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:32:30 PM)
So then there should be tons that sorcerers can help with.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:32:31 PM)
The players actually built what stats the chantry has, Resources 2, Status 2, Node 3, Library 2, Sanctum 1 - the only thing that was from an npc was the node.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:32:51 PM)
Those are just backgrounds.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:33:19 PM)
*sigh* .. okay what exactly do you mean by contribute then?

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:33:30 PM)
Because I don't think I'm following. :-/

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:34:59 PM)
I'm only having NPCs handle the wards so that they're (for certain!) handled.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:36:15 PM)
If the only thing that PCs can contribute to are backgrounds, I'm okay with that, but does mean that there isn't much that I can add beyond more background points. The Chantry will be a giant stat machine that exists by virtue of the STs, because the PCs won't have any control or guidance to the maintanance of the place beyond adding numbers to those stats, and all the details will be decided probably on a storyline by storyline basis, I'm guessing.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:36:47 PM)
Like if someone decides to attack the Chantry, the ST will make up how the wards work and how someone could attack, and the players will be guessing until they're told how everything is working.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:37:42 PM)
Or if someone just walks into the place uninvited, the players will have no idea how the place will react without asking the ST because the ST is the one the decides what happens then, not the players.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:38:05 PM)
Based on the Chantries stats, right?

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:38:53 PM)
-_- In Six months or more, to my knowledge. No one handled the Wards.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:39:43 PM)
And the players will never need to come together to cast rituals for the place, because that'll all be handled by the Chantry background on individual sheets. And you're right! That's the thing! No one will handle them until it's shown they need to, because players are always just handed magic box chantries that come with everything.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:41:13 PM)
That's what I mean by "NPCed away".

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:42:17 PM)
So yes, now that they are handled, the ST will decide what the wards do. As for "magic box" syndrome, There's no intention of any such thing, and I still do not understand what you mean by contributing if not something that can be deemed a background. So, again, can you please explain that?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:43:20 PM)
I can't really. If everything has been handled by NPCs and the only way to contribute in this system is to buy a background, then that's the only thing players are allowed to do.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:44:06 PM)
As I've already stated, not everything is handled by NPCs, so can you please explain what you are talking about so that we are on the same page and I can give you an answer that makes sense?

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:44:42 PM)
Some examples would suffice.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:47:41 PM)
There isn't enough detail about what needs to happen to maintain this building, but if that information existed, people would know what they needed to organize to do. For example, if they knew that the place didn't have a certain type of ward (like something to prevent fires inside the building), then they'd could cast a ritual themself to create that ward. If they knew that no one was contributing food and drinks, then they could have their character bringing food and drinks into the place. If they knew that no one was even -dusting the furniture-, then they could even have their characters cleaning the place in a scene. It gives people a reason to have their characters at the Chantry beyond sitting on a sofa, staring at the fireplace and saying wise things about nothing at all. They could instead be talking about what they want to do to the Chantry, and know that they can actually do it and get credit for it.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:48:28 PM)
Instead, it's another coffeeshop.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:50:37 PM)
That's what I mean by contribute, and why I think it's all been NPCed away.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:53:27 PM)
Though, now that I think about it, it's probably not the theme of Mage to care about stuff like that. That's more sorcerer. So if you just don't want the game to be that type, that's okay too.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:54:22 PM)
Actually, that's probably it. It's just not the theme of Mage to build up things like Chantries, but to go on adventures and explore spirit worlds and such, right?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:54:39 PM)
So building Chantries is therefore being downplayed.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:54:50 PM)
And reduced to a stat.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:55:34 PM)
Okay, I think I need to explain something. This Chantry was formed 7-ish months ago by the people that aquired it from an NPC. The ST at the time asked folks to buy chantry points to give it stats, which (as I was just a player at the time) we did. The stats were posted on the forum, along with a request for room descriptions, and a promise for a SL for folks that sent them in. Folks did. Those descriptions were never posted. Players have been doing those things you describe (except for the wards, since those were never defined) and not really understanding the place. Until last night when I posted that (as yet unfinished) description, there wasn't even that much defined. No one would admit to being a leader IC, there was no council, nothing, even with ST encouragement.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:56:07 PM)
That's neat.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:56:20 PM)
So I'm trying to fill in the blanks, and give this Setting structure.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:56:45 PM)
Do you have a vision for what part players will play in the setting structure?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:56:56 PM)
Are there hooks for players to place themselves?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 2:57:49 PM)
Because writing a setting is a waste of time if no one ever needs to read it. That happens consistantly on IV and on NYC.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:57:55 PM)
Any part they're willing to. I'm trying to sort the backdrop currently, and forgive me but it's rather insulting to have posted it just barely last night, and already be accused of making it a magic box. >.< It's not. I mean, there's a sorcerer doing the wards.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:58:58 PM)
:( So.. um.. yes. Any suggestions on how to keep track of contributions?

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 2:59:32 PM)
We DO have a wiki.. I suppose we could have a section there for it.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:00:04 PM)
The only thing Sorcerers can ward (without mod to the rules in the books) is teleportation and binding things/spirits/etc. That's something I wanted to talk to you about. But I do have a lot of suggestions about how to track these sorts of things, which is why I applied to be an ST and my story ideas were about mundane stuff playing a large role in the war against the Technocracy..

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:00:50 PM)
Actually Summoning, Binding, and Warding isn't just spirits. :)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:01:04 PM)
I said things/spirits/etc.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:01:48 PM)
I'm not getting what you mean by "only" then. o.O

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:02:14 PM)
>. Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:04:51 PM)
Sorcerers have no way to see a spirit. They have no way to protect their minds. They have no way to affect matter. They have no way to do damage like a Mage within a single round. Etc. They're not mages, and there are big gaps in what sorcerers can and can't do compared to Mages. Also, a lot of the things that sorcerers can do like Mages is deliberately weakened. For example, Fascination can't be used on anyone with mind powers at all, even Mind 1, even if it's not even active, and so on. So when I say "only" in relation to sorcerers, I really mean "only" in relation to Mages and their possible involvement in Mage-like storylines that involve Spirits and Mind magic and combat.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:05:31 PM)
So I'm fine with my use of the word "Only".

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:06:16 PM)
(And I'm discounting the Dreamweavers-only paths that let sorcerers interact with spirits, since that's 1 tradition out of 9)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:07:50 PM)
But that's kind of getting away from the point of establishing settings that players can interact with.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:08:32 PM)
Okay what was your suggestion then?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:11:07 PM)
Having a list of things on the wiki that players can contribute to for the Chantry would be one way to suggest to players that reading the setting matters and that certain things need to occur. The other is to pick out things that are missing for the Chantry, and having things happen in scenes that -shows- they're missing. Have a mad scientist raid their node. Have someone stealing books from the library. Have some part of it catch fire. Make the door watched by hobos from the alley across the street.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:11:47 PM)
Make them get investigated by the IRS, even.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:13:27 PM)
That's more gothic punk than cyberpunk, but oh well. Still, it might not be the theme you're after, so you can ignore all that to work toward whatever vision you have for the game, in which case a stat is just fine.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:16:58 PM)
Once I've got the setting detailed, I was planning on that kind of thing happening, but that will have to come after I'm done shifting the setting to what it will be. In the meantime, I'll put a section on the wiki for who's doing what, and everyone can go from there with their own imagination until I can start showing the flaws in their setup.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:19:08 PM)
Not giving players to read the setting also means that you can probably skip a lot of the detailed history that I see you're working on. If someone will never come up in a scene, there's not much reason to write about it on the wiki. It might help speed up the writing and prevent writer's burn out and a lot of frustration. Also, large blocks of text aren't often read in their entirety, so unless there is important information that's vital to a lot of people, that text isn't contributing much.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:19:19 PM)
(making*, not giving)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:19:47 PM)
(And anything, not just someone.)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:20:12 PM)
I'm typing on a tiny keyboard on a tablet, so my fingers are starting to miss, since I'm outside and it's cold.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:21:40 PM)
Players not reading the setting or bothering with it, tends to contribute more to magic box syndrome than anything else.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:24:35 PM)
Either way, as far as the chantry and what you can do.. Use your imagination, and some patience with us STs as we're trying to get it all sorted out so it's defined rather than everyone shrugging and saying they don't know. It's a slow process as there's alot to be done behind the scenes if things are going to stay consistent, and not be tossed as a bad deal the next time a new ST takes over.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:25:46 PM)
I'll have a section on the wiki for contributions before the end of the night. :)

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:26:35 PM)
Blame the players instead of the design? You and I both know that (despite the odd dedicated player) that most players can hardly be bothered to check the -forums- every day let alone a wiki that doesn't show you when there is new content or highlight what's important. If there is a huge page full of huge blocks of text, they'll scan it over once and never look at it again unless they're told there is something important there for something they're interested in. But I do have imagination, and if I'm given some free reign about what can be contributed instead of being blocked by NPCs, I'll definitely be able to contribute something. Thanks for talking. This was good.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:30:39 PM)
Players that don't read the setting, tend to destroy it through ignorance of it's resources, or lack thereof. If that happens too often, the STs start compensating just so that the setting stays vaguely consistent and they don't have to reinvent it frequently. That's what I mean by contributing to the syndrome. Do you disagree this is the case?

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:31:19 PM)
I agree that players that don't read the setting are a problem, but I don't agree that the solution is more setting.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:32:06 PM)
I didn't say it was.

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 3:33:08 PM)
Anyways, going to go work on the wiki. Probably need to rearrange it. *ponders*

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:33:40 PM)
Or especially overwhelming setting. I don't think that you read my suggestion right. I wasn't suggesting the non-constructive statement that "players shouldn't have to read settings". I was making a constructive suggestion that history that'll never be used in a scene and that big blocks of text are avoided.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:34:38 PM)
For example, Nicholas Cage.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:39:51 PM)
Time for a warm bath, I think. I'll be back later to see if any purples are on.

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:40:20 PM)
Ciao!

Caoimhe Bain (Nov 17, 2011 3:40:29 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP = 198.53.107.243)

CowboyGhostie (Nov 17, 2011 4:09:56 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP = 68.205.136.19)