RevBadger OOC (Nov 7, 2010 11:59:14 PM)
How about that ok? How about a compromise.

Ghostlin (Nov 7, 2010 11:59:57 PM)
I'm getting Signal now.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:00:06 AM)
Since I would have won, next round. we will give cookie his one sux while we negate delay my roll. We have him roll one more time and if he gets more than 2 suxx then we go to the spending willpower section of the rules.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:01:40 AM)
(This user has entered WtA Dungeon) (IP = 69.134.17.46)

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:01:47 AM)
Hi Siggy. welcome to the party.

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:01:50 AM)
hey Siggy

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:02:02 AM)
Hi, so whats goin on?

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:02:39 AM)
getting up for a soda myself

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:02:50 AM)
I disagree with a ruling Ghostlin has stated. My decision is based on fact and cannon, where his is based off of lack of precident. Before we go into details do you have a wta core book handy?

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:02:57 AM)
yeah

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:02:58 AM)
i do

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:04:32 AM)
kick ass. Now forgetting what you learned in IV. can you please read page 200 on the facedown rules as well as page 190-191 on the frenzy rules. And tell me where it says that it would negate my next round actions. (not my further actions in the same round) where it would negate my actions already took in the same round, where I blink, where I cower, where I run away, or where I do anything at all t hat would negate a staredown?

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:04:38 AM)
....I'm not sure I'm particularly fond the way you put that.

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:05:49 AM)
I'm --sure-- you could of worded that without insulting me. Care to try again?

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:06:01 AM)
I'm sorry you feel that way ghost. I'm not trying to be rude. How about. "Ghost's defence is based on....what it doesn't say in the book, verses mine being what it says in the book and the difference between those view points"? Better?

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:06:37 AM)
Revbadger.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:06:42 AM)
let me go read it.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:07:06 AM)
No worries, take your time. I'm going to go potty. Afk for a few.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:09:18 AM)
well i'm done reading, let me know when yo'ure back

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:09:31 AM)
Infact truth be told, I'm not trying to insult anyone. You three are my three favorite Sts and admins from this site or others. My wife of course excluded because I may be a bit biased. Please take into account that I am at work on hold with a vendor and typing in short bursts. I appologize for any future insults. It was not my intention.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:09:39 AM)
And I am back (LOL obviously)

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:10:12 AM)
okay, here's what i'm reading

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:10:24 AM)
It's fine. I may be semi not present...someone just pinged me for a question.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:10:36 AM)
which is- frenzy rules state that if you roll 4 or more successes, you have to spend a wp not to frenzy, and you loose any other actions for that round, not a future round

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:10:53 AM)
Except Staredowns don't have initative.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:11:01 AM)
hang on

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:11:02 AM)
i'm not done

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:11:34 AM)
the staredown rules however, mention that if you roll 4 ore more successes you frenzy, and attack. it doesnt actually give the wp option there. additionally it mentions that to win, you have to keep your cool.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:11:42 AM)
*waits patiently*

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:11:55 AM)
everyone follow me so far?

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:12:07 AM)
I'm here.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:12:11 AM)
I do. I have adendums when you are done.

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:12:12 AM)
kinda

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:12:19 AM)
So here's how I read these, explicitly. the rules state one of two things

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:12:28 AM)
either a. you can't spend a wp during a staredown to avoid frenzy

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:12:41 AM)
which appears to be what's stated here but white wolf never was known for great editing skills.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:12:48 AM)
or b. taking the first line that you have to keep your cool

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:13:00 AM)
if you roll rage and get frenzy out of it- i dont see how *that* roll would apply to your staredown suxx

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:13:28 AM)
can I ask a question?

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:13:30 AM)
you could spend the wp to not try to kill the other party but i dont see that that roll would add to your total because you're too busy trying not to maim and murder folks .

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:13:32 AM)
yes

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:13:55 AM)
in the staredown rules where it talks about "keepign your cool" it talks about spending willpower if you lose to keep going correct?

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:14:21 AM)
Does it state that if you lose, and spend a wp that roll doesn't count to your successes?

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:14:22 AM)
Yes, immediately after talking about total # of suxx. i dont think that line is applying to frenzy

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:14:31 AM)
it's applying to if the other party reaches the # of suxx before you do

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:14:37 AM)
you can spend a wp to keep going.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:14:39 AM)
it changes the numbers.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:14:46 AM)
of difficulties from that point.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:15:08 AM)
it's talking about glaring even though you should be cowering at that point.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:16:19 AM)
See I read that more as "when you lose, this happens"

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:16:26 AM)
Which is --not-- the same thing as avoiding frenzy.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:16:35 AM)
No they're talking about when the other party wins by # of suxx, not loosing by frenzy

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:17:23 AM)
That's like comparing an apple to a potato. They're both grainy, but you wouldn't make mashed apples with gravy.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:17:30 AM)
you can.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:17:47 AM)
.....and i dont like gravy so going back to the...issue at hand

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:17:49 AM)
i'd go with a sweet gravy though.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:17:58 AM)
cullinary differences aside

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:18:04 AM)
or i'll start telling you what i eat on mashed potatoes instead.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:18:07 AM)
and that is a threat

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:18:14 AM)
So... even though I see your logic, and disagree with it. Here is my suggestion to a compromise.

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:18:27 AM)
She eats ketchup.

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:18:31 AM)
it's a bit odd.

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:18:37 AM)
mmmm ketchup!

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:18:48 AM)
oh and Im back now.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:19:24 AM)
My roll stands, because well lets face it, a guy who is about to frenzy and eat you is scary, even if that near frenzied ball of crazy is ducky. We give Apollo one more roll if he gets 2 or more suxx then we go to will power spending if he wants to.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:19:57 AM)
hr? i'm, not, getting how that would work

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:19:58 AM)
That would basically give him his roll that ended the stare down against nothing, then my winning roll against what ever he rolls. Then the option to spend wp if he wants to.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:20:28 AM)
Honestly i think it'd be best if you redid that one staredown

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:20:43 AM)
that's not really that punitive. at all. it's saying there was confusion, so lets do it by the book.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:21:20 AM)
if I redo that one then I am going to ask to redo the others ones where i frenzied. because to be honest, the reason I spent will power was "OMG I neeeeeeed to win" coupled by "iF I frenzie that kin is going to shoot me"

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:21:29 AM)
...Which is essentally what was proposed. Even with a different Garou, if he liked.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:21:43 AM)
I can see redoing all the ones where frenzy was involved. Ghostlin, do you have any argument with that?

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:21:48 AM)
both of wich seem like perfect reasons based on the house rule on spending xp.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:21:53 AM)
and i dont have a problem if he wants to choose other garou instead.

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:22:10 AM)
were there others where he frenzied?

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:22:20 AM)
No debate; this is essentally what I offered him before you came into the room.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:22:25 AM)
RevBadger- how many were frenzy involved?

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:22:47 AM)
Neith and Madylin. Neith I was on my friends pc and couldn't screen shot. Mady's I think is on my work computer somewhere I can upload those.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:23:28 AM)
I still like the one roll Idea. because what Ghost posted before was that my next action wouldn't count. or he would have a free round to stare me down.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:23:30 AM)
Given that we're saying the rules work differently, I'm not opposed to him having to redo the three, if Z and Ghost are okay with that since you are RB, i'd say that's the ruling here.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:23:45 AM)
Well it effectively does work out to a free round

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:23:50 AM)
Either way.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:23:53 AM)
the round you frenzy is the round that wouldnt count against the other party.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:24:00 AM)
becuase yo'ure busy, frenzying instead of staring at them

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:24:03 AM)
You either got 0 suxx or you get a free round.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:24:19 AM)
Exactly so in my scenario with the free round it would work like this... please follow.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:24:25 AM)
I'm trying.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:25:22 AM)
Round 1.... Ducky *Stares* 3 sux. Appolo *Stares* 1 sux* Round 1.... Doucky 3 Appolo 1

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:25:35 AM)
ok so far.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:26:15 AM)
Round 2... Ducky *Stares* Frenzies Rawr 4 sux. Apollo *Stares* 2 sux. Round 2 ends Ducky 7 Apollo 3

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:26:45 AM)
hrr okay that's where we're disagreeing slightly but tell me what round 3 is

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:28:04 AM)
Round 3. Ducky keeps staring but his heart isn't in it (Free round to Apollo) Round 3 ends Ducky 7 Apollo 5.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:28:25 AM)
or worded alternatively Round 3 - ducky is spending wp to not frenzy. apollo gets to roll?

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:28:31 AM)
same thing okay...one sec

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:28:44 AM)
Round 4 Ducky gaining his faculties stares more* 2 sux.. appollo (hasn't rolled but will need 3 or more sux to cause ducky to lose.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:29:06 AM)
Round 4 ends Doug 9 v Apollo 5 (+roll)

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:29:22 AM)
okay one sec to think here.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:29:44 AM)
No worries I'll be afk for like five minutes while you guys discuss.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:31:58 AM)
RB- when you're back let me know

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:33:20 AM)
Heres the example of what i was reading out of the rules - Round 1 - Ducky stares - 3 suxx, Apollo 1 - so D 3 A 1, Round 2 Ducky frenzies with 4 suxx - Apollo Stares w 2 - Ducky spends a WP and the frenzy doesnt count. So it's D 3 v A 3 Round 3 - Ducky rolls and gets 2 suxx - A rolls and gets 1 suxx - D 5 A 4 - and so forth.

Test''Char (Nov 8, 2010 12:42:35 AM)
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SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:42:40 AM)
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Test''Char (Nov 8, 2010 12:42:40 AM)
Siggy. it's not my damn night

Test''Char (Nov 8, 2010 12:42:47 AM)
okay, did RB see my example?

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:42:48 AM)
I got your OOC.

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:43:06 AM)
it popped up siggy

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:43:07 AM)
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Test''Char (Nov 8, 2010 12:43:17 AM)
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SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:43:33 AM)
thanks g. but so, RB has or hasn't been back to see my interp of the rules?

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:44:55 AM)
no he hasn't replied

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 12:45:12 AM)
We both saw it.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:52:40 AM)
ok back........... sorry.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:55:08 AM)
ok

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:55:18 AM)
my question is why wouldn't the frenzy suxx count towards the intimidation roll?

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:55:40 AM)
I am ok with it negating the next round but not the round it occured in as a guy about to eat you would infact be scarey

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 12:56:09 AM)
I think it's about keeping your cool.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:56:49 AM)
so by your collective ruling if you spend a wp to negate the frenzy it doesn't add to the intimidation at all?

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:57:16 AM)
yah. you're only loosing that round. and it's based off the wording at the top of a staredown thing

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:57:30 AM)
now that said, i dont see any problem with letting you redo all three challenges instead of just the one in dispute.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:57:57 AM)
and we'll post it up so it's out there for all staredowns and everyone gets it.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 12:59:41 AM)
or you can redo just the one. either way works. tbh. i'll leave that up to your decision.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:02:29 AM)
I just want to make sure I am clear before I make a decision. So it would be Ducky *stares* Apollo *stares* (D3A1) Round 2 Ducky *Tries to stare, frenzies blows wp* Apollo *Stares* (D3A3) Round 3 Ducky *Stares* Apollo *Stares* (D5A4). And the ruling would be posted under house rules as "If you spend WP to negate a frenzy in a staredown, you maintain eye contact, but you are more focused on keeping your beast in instead of shooting it at the opponent"

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:03:10 AM)
yup

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:03:12 AM)
you got it

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:03:25 AM)
you loose that round, but you do roll the very next one

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:03:29 AM)
So we would go to round 4 and I'd need 3 sux and he'd need four, then we'd go to spending wp and so forth?

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:03:35 AM)
yup.

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:05:27 AM)
one sec, I got to way my options.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:05:37 AM)
That's fine.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:05:59 AM)
TBH, as long as we are all clear on the rules, and as long as the Wta Sts are okay with you redoing 1 or all three - and it's just you needing to think, i'm going to log out and head to bed

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:06:29 AM)
and you can give them your decision in a time frame as you guys work out. TBH i dont see it being an issue if you want to think on it and shoot them an FPM sometime tommorow before you start redoing things.

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 1:07:06 AM)
Works for me, and thanks Siggy.

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 1:07:19 AM)
Though it's ghostlin's call at this point.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:07:24 AM)
Np folks. u good with that RB or do you need me for something else?

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 1:07:48 AM)
I'll be happy to go with whatever RB decides is best.

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:11:02 AM)
hrr imma guess he's thinking and go sleep because i have work. if folks do need something else out of me drop an FPM and i'll get it tommorow

SignalDancer OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:11:14 AM)
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RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:18:59 AM)
(sorry for the delay, on a call for work)

Zhaed! (Nov 8, 2010 1:19:19 AM)
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Lars 'Breaks-the-Bottle' Hale (Nov 8, 2010 1:19:26 AM)
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Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 1:19:45 AM)
Gotta go deal with something IC. PM Werewolf team

RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:19:54 AM)
ok I will thanks for listening man

Ghostlin (Nov 8, 2010 1:20:05 AM)
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Takes No Shit (Nov 8, 2010 1:20:46 AM)
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RevBadger OOC (Nov 8, 2010 1:23:25 AM)
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